There’s an old adage that goes like this: If you think you can’t be deceived, you’re already half-way there. With the antichrist spirit rising in our world, we must vigilantly guard our hearts with the truth of God’s Word and submission to God's authority.

Host: Steve, as we continue our discussions on "Intoxicated with Babylon," we want to talk today about a chapter that you entitled “The Great Deception.” In the first part of this chapter you made this statement, “The present-day church is very comparable to the Jewish people who were following Jesus during the height of His popularity.” How is that so?

Steve: Well, I used the story about when Jesus fed the five thousand and how excited the people were about Him. They were ready to proclaim Him King of Israel. People like the Jesus who gives them what they want, but when Jesus doesn't give them what they want, then it becomes a whole other matter.

Host: You also said that they were not as interested in serving God as they were in God serving them.

Steve: That’s basically it. In John 6, Jesus said, “You seek Me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled.” (John 6:26b, NASB 1995) And then He told them, “Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life.” (John 6:27a, NASB 1995) And what Jesus was saying to these people was that they weren't seeking Him because they wanted the life in God that the signs pointed to, they were seeking Him because they wanted Him to use His supernatural skills to enhance their lives on this earth.

Host: Let's fast forward to where we are in in history now. You mentioned that the end-time believers in the scriptures were warned about the same thing we should be wary of—that there is a battle going on between the carnal appetite and spiritual appetites that we experience.

Steve: Well, I think that's basically the point Jesus was making in Matthew 24 when He described the end times as being just like it was in the days of Noah. They were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying and they were being given in marriage. Jesus ties that in to this carnal lifestyle where feeding your flesh is the preeminent characteristic of your life. And He says that's the way it's going to be in the end times.

Host: The words that Jesus was using as He was talking to these folks were hard words to hear. What kind of people was He speaking to? What kind of people was Jesus looking for?

Steve: Well, one thing's for certain, Jesus was not trying to wow the crowds and win the multitudes in a sense. He wanted people as followers who really meant business with Him. He wasn't interested in superficial conversions or people who just followed Him during the good times. He wanted people who were going to be wedded to Him for better or worse. He wanted people who had a real lifelong devotion and commitment to Him.

Host: Do you think that most Christians in the church today believe or are aware that we're in the last days?

Steve: I think people understand that in a vague sort of way, but what tends to happen is that there are all the pressures at work and their busy schedules. All of that kind of forces the reality that we are in the last days into the background. So it makes for good reading or Christian movies to watch about people who were raptured and all of that stuff. But the thought of somehow being deceived by the devil into worshipping the Antichrist for most Christians would seem ridiculous because they don't see themselves in the place where they would be prone to that kind of deception.

Host: You believe that the church is already in tremendous trouble, and you listed 4 reasons that you believe that to be true.

Steve: Yeah. First is that corporately we have lost our shame of sin and our sense of the evil nature of sin. Sin just is not that big of a deal to us in the 21st century church. That makes us vulnerable. Secondly, we've become addicted to the carnal lifestyle that this world offers us. If we had to face life without all the luxuries that we have become accustomed to, many people just couldn't handle it. Also, the reality is that a large part of the church has been lulled to sleep spiritually by the soothing voice of the spirit of this world. And lastly, there's a lot of rebellion against God's authority in people's lives. All those things combined makes Christians very susceptible to deception.

Host: A little later, you talk from a slightly different perspective, but you listed several reasons why the church is not prepared for the wave of evil that's coming.

Steve: Well, it's really in the general attitudes found out in the church. One of them I kind of touched on is that people have the attitude that they cannot be deceived. And to be honest, we are all prone to that. We have a ridiculous amount of confidence in our ability to spot deception and because we believe that, it makes us all the more susceptible to it. Someone once said, “if you think you can't be deceived, you're already halfway there.” That is just so true. Secondly, it's just self-confidence. If you were to ask most Christians, the attitude you would get is I don't care what happens or how bad it gets, I will never ever deny Christ.

Host: Yes, just like Peter.

Steve: Yes. That's a good point. And that of course is exactly what happened. And another reason the church is not prepared is because of the human tendency to prefer a lie to the truth. And I say that in the sense that most Christians think of truth as holding to correct doctrines. That's a part of truth, but truth has a lot more to do with the reality of our relationship with Jesus Christ in our daily life than it does with holding proper doctrines.

Host: You also talk in this chapter about the whore of Babylon, that there is coming a time when there are going to be those in the church that are going to fall away and are going to choose a different lover. Talk about that a little bit.

Steve: I cannot say this strongly enough. Jesus warned over and over that many were going to fall away to deception. Paul warned about it too. And in Revelation 17 we hear about the whore of Babylon, which is the apostate church. There are sections of Scripture that describe the apostate church, and I go into that in my other book "Standing firm through the Great Apostasy." There are going to be a massive number of professing Christians who are going to fall completely away from Jesus Christ and whatever attachment they've had with Him. Massive numbers are going to fall away from Him and are going to end up with the mark of the beast.

Now I know that's a very provoking statement, but Scripture is very clear about it and we might as well just acknowledge it. The reason why deception is so powerful and is going to be so powerful is that Christianity is something that is lived out in the heart. In other words, people are going to be falling away in their heart. Outwardly for some period of time, they're going to continue to go through the motions of Christianity. They're going to be in church, mimicking true Christians, singing songs, hearing sermons and filling their minds with spiritual information. Ever learning, but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth and deceiving themselves. Being deceived. Being led astray.

That's exactly what Scripture describes for the end times and that's what I see happening right now. A large portion of evangelical Christianity has already been terribly led astray. We will see the day I believe when that part of the church is going to turn with a vengeance against true believers. And again, that's exactly what Jesus predicted would happen.

Host: Steve, you wrote, “We have already seen how a great apostasy has been predicted. The river of delusion is rising. The whole world is being swept toward the giant waterfall that will spill its inhabitants into the lake of fire. It is the broad way. It is the way of kosmos.” But you also said that Jesus was careful to show His people the way of escape. What is that way of escape? What does the listener need to do to make sure that they're prepared for what is coming?

Steve: Well, what Jesus said over and over was to be ready. To be on the alert. To be awake. What does that mean? To be spiritually awake means you must extricate yourself from the spirit of this world and you must be connected in a very real way to Jesus Christ, or you are going to be in a dangerous position as things grow darker in the days to come.

Host: But there is hope. Those who delight themselves in the Lord, those who are truly seeking after Him, He is going to keep us, if that's the path of our life.

Steve: It's His heart. It's not like God is up there waiting to throttle people into hell. That is not His desire. His desire is for all to come to repentance that they might be saved. He loves, but that doesn’t mean that He just completely throws out what it means to be in a real relationship with Him. And he's going to fight for every sincere person. He will fight for them to get them through.