Tongues of Fire: The Early Church Part 1

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Tongues of Fire: The Early Church Part 1

September 12, 2024

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Jesus told his disciples to wait in Jerusalem until they received power from on high to become His witnesses. That kind of power is exactly what is needed in the church today. Welcome to Part 1 of a short series called “Tongues of Fire: The Early Church.”

Host: Steve Gallagher has joined me in the studio. Steve is the founder of Pure Life Ministries. Steve good to see you again.

Steve: Glad to be here.

Host: Steve, we want to talk about an 8-week series that you did on the early Church. You started your first talk in this series, “The Commission of the Church” by looking at the books of Luke and Acts. Tell us a little bit about the relationship between these two books.

Steve: Well, they were both written by Luke the physician and unlike the other gospel writers, Luke wasn't an eyewitness to the events of the life of Jesus. During Jesus’s lifetime he was a Greek who was probably living in Philippi. And he also wasn't around during the early years of the Church. So, he acted primarily as a historian, which meant that he had to go and get accounts from other people. When he wrote these two books, he did it as a two-part history of the Church. So, part one was the story of Christ, which is the book of Luke. And then part 2 was how the story continued forth after Jesus died. That's how it was first passed around, as a two-part book.

Host: You mentioned in your talk that there were three purposes Luke had for writing the book of Acts. Talk about those.

Steve: Well, he gives us one of the purposes with the first thing he says right in his opening remarks in the book of Luke. He said, “So that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.” (Luke 1:4 NIV) He was referring to this man, Theophilus, who apparently was some kind of Roman official. He was giving him the story. That was number one. His second purpose was that he was providing a historical account of what happened. How Christianity began and how it grew from there. But also, the third thing was that he was attempting to justify Christianity to the Roman world. Because that was the world he lived in, in that day, and he was trying to present a credible, believable account of what Christianity is and why the people didn’t need to fear it.

Host: People love stories, and we love the development of characters in a story. I love the way that you brought out the leading character in the story of Acts. Talk about that.

Steve: The book of Acts is almost like a play, if you can imagine it that way. You've got two leading characters. First, you have Peter, who dominates the scene in the early part of the book of Acts and in the early Church. He is the main person. But of course, the book of Acts continues on from there. So, the second leading character becomes the Apostle Paul, and the focus shifts from Peter to Paul. But really the leading character in the story in Acts is the Holy Spirit, because it is the Holy Spirit who inspires. It's the Holy Spirit who leads. It's the Holy Spirit who is presenting Jesus Christ. He's operating through these men and He's operating in circumstances. The Holy Spirit is the leading actor in the book of Acts.

In Chapter One, Jesus gives His final instructions to the disciples right before His ascension. There were 50 days between when He was Passover, when He was crucified and Pentecost, where that great outpouring happened, and the first 40 days consisted of Jesus presenting Himself to His people. Then His ascension happened and that was 10 days before Pentecost. And at that time He instructed the disciples to wait for 10 days.

Host: Yeah. And He not only instructed them, but He also made a promise to them.

Steve: Yes. He promised them that if they would wait on the Lord, if they would seek His face, that the Holy Spirit would come upon them, would empower them and make them witnesses throughout the world. That is the Great Commission: to go into all the world and make disciples. And this part of Christianity, which I'm afraid is often lost in the church, as weak as it is, is a major role of Christianity. We are to go forth as representatives of Jesus Christ.

In other words, the way that you live your life should make a loud statement to people that I fully believe in Jesus Christ. I obey Him. I live my life in such a way that it reflects His character and His nature everywhere I go. And that is part of the Great Commission. And as I live my life that way, I pour myself into other people who are new to the faith and I disciple them. I help them to mature in the faith.

Host: Yeah, and that certainly is what we see being lived out in the early Church. How we long to see more of that today.

Steve: Yes, we do. Absolutely.

Host: Did the disciples play a part in bringing this outpouring of the Holy Spirit and revival about or was this a sovereign act of God?

Steve: This is always one of the big questions regarding revival, because this was the mightiest revival Earth has ever seen as far as I'm concerned. Is it the Lord just sovereignly acting, or is it that people pray and do the right thing to bring it about? And if you listen to Charles Finney, that's what he would say is that it's just a simple formula. It's no different than a farmer going out and throwing seed in the ground and watering it. If you do that, you're going to have results he would say. But I'm not so sure about that.

I understand what he's saying and there is truth to it, but to battle through on your knees to bring about something like a mighty revival requires a real touch from God. And in this particular case, Jesus told them what was going to happen. So, there was an expectancy building up. They knew what to do. They were to wait on the Lord, which is what they did for 10 days. And at the end of that 10 days, which happened to be on the day of Pentecost, The Lord came forth. Was it because of the disciple’s prayers and waiting on the Lord? Yes. Was it a sovereign act of God? Yes. It was both.

Host: Yeah. You know, in our current culture, we find it so hard to wait on the Lord for anything. But again, we're in a time where we desperately need an outpouring of the Holy Spirit. And what does God want us to do? He wants us to pray. He wants us to be doing the things that we're supposed to be doing, but it's going to be a sovereign act of God that He's going to pour out His Spirit in these last days. So, can you now explain to us, what did happen on the day of Pentecost?

Steve: 120 of Jesus’s followers had been waiting on the Lord for 10 days. Praying, fasting and probably spending time in the Word. They were probably spending time in silence as well. They were doing spiritual things for the most part. And on the day of Pentecost, as they're gathered about, maybe there was a little bit of anticipation because it was such a special feast day, but there was no guarantee that anything was going to happen that day.

But the Lord knows how far He can stretch us. And if He would have gone past 10 days, I have a feeling people's hopes would have started diminishing and fading, and maybe they would have started losing that sense of anticipation. But anyway, on the day of Pentecost, all of a sudden there's this rumbling. Maybe they heard it from a distance and it got louder and louder. But suddenly, the whole place is filled with the presence of God and just like a fire gets so hot that flames dance around outside of the wood, that's the way it seemed in the spiritual realm. There were these flames of fire dancing around these people and the Lord was pouring Himself out on them, in them and through them.

Whatever was going on, it just gripped the people of the city and before you know it, thousands of people were gathered. Imagine Tiananmen Square in Beijing, where thousands of people were pouring out into the city, and they had those demonstrations so many years ago. I think it was kind of like that, where something so exciting was happening that thousands of people were showing up and then Peter gets up and boldly begins to preach.

Host: I want to hear that sermon. Well, we have it written down, but I would like to see the instant replay of that one.

Steve: Well, just looking at the highlights that Luke gives us, it's pretty impressive for the guys first sermon. Because for your first sermon, usually you feel awkward and you're not sure what to say. You're kind of stumbling through it. But he got up in the power of God and gave a powerful message. And more than it being an inspired message where he was saying the right things, much more important was the fact that the presence of God so filled the atmosphere that his words were so convicting that they went into people's hearts and 3000 people got saved that day.

Host: We hear of revivals and moves of God today. Sometimes they truly are revivals, but sometimes they aren't. But the way we can discern more clearly is by the fruit that follows these events. What happened following this revival?

Steve: That really is a good point, because when people come to the Lord through a powerful conversion it makes a difference. Take my wife as an example. She got saved at the tail end of the Jesus Movement in the late 70s. And I don't know how to explain it, but I don't see those kind of conversions anymore. You just don't hear about people being powerfully converted and just being on fire for the Lord right from the beginning. There is something when a revival is taking place that people get so dramatically affected, and then it comes out in the way that they live their lives.

And as you read through the rest of Acts 2, you see that the people were meeting together regularly. They were sharing their possessions with each other. You know some miracles had to happen to get people to do that. And they were spending a lot of time in prayer and in Bible study. They had all the markings of people who were on fire for the Lord. It wasn't just that they got saved and went back to basically their same old lifestyle with a few alterations. No, they got powerfully saved and went out and changed the world.

Host: Oh, that the power of God would come down like that today and we would see that kind of dramatic conversion of souls.

Steve: It's going to happen. I don't know when exactly, but it is coming.

Timeless Truths: We All Need Genuine Repentance

November 7, 2024

Jesus warned that on Judgment Day, He would tell many that He "never knew them” because, although they performed religious actions in His name, they were harboring iniquity in their hearts. In today’s Timeless Truths, we’ll discuss why repentance and intimacy with Christ will prepare us to stand before God. Host: Counselor Bill Lucas has joined Kathy Gallagher and I in the studio today. Bill, it's good to see you. Thanks for coming in. Bill: Thank you for having me. Host: We want to talk today about the lifestyle and attitude of repentance. We're going to begin by taking a look at three types of individuals described in Scripture that do not reflect an attitude of repentance. Those types are false teachers, those who have never repented, and the self-righteous. Let's start with false teachers. How do we recognize them and how do we recognize that they in fact are not walking in a life of repentance? Bill: Well, Jesus talks about this in Matthew. “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits. Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.” (Matthew 7:15-21, NASB 1995) Just looking at this Scripture, it wakes me up to see that it's not about what you're doing so much on the outward, but it is an inward call. The inside is very important, and that's what I believe Jesus is trying to wake us up to. Kathy: Yea, they are teachers, and they are in front of a crowd of people. They're leading people. But the thing that Jesus sees is what's going on in the inside. The motivation of the heart. That's what He's looking at. Host: So, these false teachers are in the Church and they look like other believers in a lot of ways? Bill: Correct. The false prophet is one who is mainly being governed by their own evil lust. The Bible talks a little bit about this in Romans. It says that they are like slaves of their own appetites and they deceive unsuspecting people. Host: What does Scripture indicate motivates false teachers? Bill: Well, anyone that you would think of that's promoting their own agenda. They're doing it for a profit or it's a trade of theirs to a degree. They're trying to promote their own kingdom. They're building a kingdom of their own rather than building up the Kingdom of God. Host: Sounds like a politician giving the people what their itching ears want to hear. They’ll say whatever will make the people happy to get elected. Bill: Interestingly yes, there are those similarities. Host: Well, now let's talk about those who have never truly repented. I know that there are a lot of individuals in the church who surround themselves with a cloak of Christianity. They may go to church. They may listen to Christian radio programs. They may read Christian books. But the Bible does speak very clearly about who will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, and it's not describing those who are just doing these outward things. Bill: That's right. Of course, the Bible is very clear about who does get to come into Heaven, and that is repeatedly said to be the one that does the will of the Father. And Romans 12:1-2 is very clear to me. It says, “Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.” (Romans 12:1-2, NASB 1995) And I just look at the idea of repentance. When you are convicted by the Holy Spirit, there is a change that occurs in you. It must happen and it's not something that is adaptable with the world system. You have to begin to go in a completely different direction from where the world system is leading you. Host: But on the other hand, Jesus talks about those that do not appear to have adapted to the world system, but in fact seem on the outside to have adapted to the religious system. And He talks about those in that camp that surely will end up in hell. Talk to us a little bit about Jesus's admonition about that. Bill: Yes, outwardly there is an element of Christianity in those people Jesus is talking about, but He is looking at their heart. And for those that have never truly repented, there's an element of wickedness remaining in their heart. 2 Timothy, 2:19 says, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.” (2 Timothy 2:19, NKJV) Again, in Psalm 5:5, “The boastful shall not stand in Your sight; You hate all workers of iniquity.” (Psalm 5:5, NKJV) And I believe that the people that don't truly repent have iniquity in their heart. Jesus said that he will tell those that prophesied in His name, cast out demons and performed miracles, “I never knew you, depart from me you workers of iniquity.” So, iniquity is still dwelling in their heart that they've never truly repented of. Kathy: These people that Jesus was speaking of, they were in the Church. They were casting out demons. They were doing many mighty works. And yet Jesus said, “Depart from me, you workers of iniquity. I never knew you.” That's a scary thing, because I think that there are a lot of people doing a lot of churchy stuff who do not know Jesus Christ and have never been born from above. They've joined the church, they've acclimated to the system, but there's a difference between joining the Church and being born into the Church. And I think we see now in our day, a lot of people that are doing a lot of outward things, but there is no real union with Christ. Host: And there's no real fruit of repentance in their life. Kathy: Yes. There's no fruit. And outward works don’t equal fruit. That's not what fruit is. Fruit is what is coming out of your life. It's born of the Holy Spirit. It's your life spilling over into the lives of other people and people are coming into the Kingdom as a result of that fruit in your life. Host: Okay, well we've talked about the false teacher. We've talked about those who have never truly repented. What about the self-righteous? Jesus talked to the Pharisees about self-righteousness. Bill: Jesus said that your righteousness must surpass that of the Scribes and Pharisees, or you will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Righteousness is the lack of iniquity. And a repentant heart is one that has departed from iniquity. The truly repentant person, and the one that is not a self-righteous person, is low in heart and humble and willing to acknowledge their lack. They're willing to see their need for God. Kathy: It’s spiritual poverty, which is what the Pharisees didn't have. Their righteousness was outward, and that's what the self-righteous do. They prop themselves up on the things that they do, their outward works and the way they even look. If they can appear righteous to people, then they consider that Christianity. But Jesus said it goes way beyond that. It's the heart that God is looking at. And when He said that your righteousness must surpass that outward ability to look like a Christian, He was highlighting that it's a heart issue. Bill: Right. The Pharisees were law-keepers. But Jesus came into the world and started representing the idea of an inward life. It's an element of faith that is being missed in our churches today that people need to just acknowledge their need for God in faith and start looking not so much at the outward but start looking at the true motives of their own heart. It’s very real to me that my character is established when I'm all alone, or when no one else is around and that tells me something. Host: Amen. Let's end this discussion by talking about what the outcome of a lifestyle of repentance is and kind of break it into the negative and the positive. What are some of the negative things from a human perspective that we might experience if we're walking out this kind of life? Bill: The word that comes to mind is persecuted. You'll be persecuted for being extreme or overzealous. When it comes to following hard after Jesus, one thing I've learned is that it's hard. Jesus throughout the New Testament seemed to make it very clear that there is going to be affliction, there is going to be persecution and there are going to be tough times for those who choose to live out a righteous life. But Jesus says to endure to the end. I've got to keep looking at the fact that Jesus, when He talks about true Christianity and denial of self, says that He's going to give us what we need as long as we endure to the end. It doesn't always feel good. It doesn't always seem to be the most popular thing to be doing. But I know one thing, I'm not going to quit. And God is getting the glory from my life as long as I don't quit this walk of righteousness. Host: Well, and that of course is part of what we want to end up on here and that is that there is a tremendous reward. There is a positive side to living this kind of lifestyle. Bill: Jesus says in Matthew 5:12, “Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in Heaven is great.” (Matthew 5:12a, NASB 1995) And I know that there is a peace and joy that reaches beyond the tentacles of this present world. Host: Yes, and there is great joy in that.

Timeless Truths: We Need the Mind of Christ

October 24, 2024

If we approach Scripture or life's challenges through human logic, our perspective will be devoid of spiritual wisdom. In this "Timeless Truths" segment, Steve Gallagher urges us to stop relying on our own understanding and instead turn to the Lord, so that He can impart the mind of Christ to us. Host: Steve Gallagher has joined me in the studio today. Steve, we want to talk today about the wisdom of “kosmos.” You discussed this at some length in your book, “Intoxicated with Babylon.” And in that chapter where you discussed the subject, you talked about the Western mind and how it has permeated so much of Christianity in America today. What did you mean by the Western mind? Steve: Well, Paul differentiates in the book of 1 Corinthians between the Jewish mindset and the Greek mindset. The Jewish mindset tied up in a nationalistic fervor regarding the Messiah and the temple and other elements of their cultural heritage. But the Greeks had a different way of approaching life, and it was through what they would call wisdom which was their Greek term “sofía.” Athens was the cultural center of Greek philosophy and their approach to looking at spirituality came through the processes of different theories that they would spin as they sat around and discussed things. So, to put it in a nutshell, the Western mind is simply a way to describe people who approach the Word of God and life’s problems through human logic rather than through what God has accomplished in their heart. Host: Well, God did give us a mind, so what's wrong with approaching life’s issues using the natural reasoning mind? Steve: We have to remember that Paul said, “The mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so.” (Romans 8:7, NASB) There is a very profound truth in that statement. We have a nature that is fallen because of our sin disposition. Left to ourselves our minds are going to revolve around self and selfishness. It will revolve around the way we want things to be and it will revolve around pride. So, when we're approaching spiritual matters, for us to just depend upon the logic of the human mind is dangerous because it's founded upon a faulty foundation. The only difference between a discerning spirit and a critical spirit is brokenness. Both use the human mind to look at a person’s faults and weaknesses and struggles, but an unbroken person looks at those faults through a self-righteous perspective. A person who has undergone the processes of God's discipline and knows what it means to be broken, who has gone through Calvary and has had his own sin issues dealt with, that person is going to look at another person's faults and struggles with a completely different mindset. It's going to be the mind of Christ that he is going to look at those problems through. And therein lies the difference between godly discipleship and most of the therapy that is being utilized under the guise of Christian Psychology in the United States today. Host: Well, you jumped right to the next subject. We do also want to talk about psychology, especially psychotherapy in the church today. Many people think about psychology with some form of the following logical trail of thought: if I break my finger, I go to the doctor. If my car is not working, I take it to the mechanic. So, if my mind is broken, why not go to the psychologist who is supposed to be the expert in the mind? What are your thoughts on that? Steve: Well, the mind isn't the problem, the heart is the problem. And until you get the heart straightened out, you can't straighten out the mind. The problem is that we all have faulty minds. The psychologist has a faulty mind. And if that psychologist hasn't truly been to the cross and gone through a repentance process himself, then he's in no condition spiritually to lead someone else to that place. You cannot lead another person spiritually any further than you've gone yourself. You can spend 20 years studying all the different nuances of psychology and the different theories and therapies. You can become the world's leading expert on all those things, but if you haven't surrendered at the cross and you don't know what it's like to have the mind of Christ, you're not going to have the ability to help Christians live a victorious Christian life. Host: And that really is the goal. The goal isn't for a person to feel better; the goal is to be victorious in their walk with Christ. Steve: The only way a person's really going to have fulfillment in life is to find it in Christ. The problem is that a lot of people don't want to go to the cross and surrender to the Lord, because they want to stay in control of their lives. They don't want to give up anything. They want to fit their lives around their worldly pursuits. And the truth is that for the most part, psychology teaches a form of life that says you don't have to go to the cross and surrender anything. It's an alternative to going to the cross, really. Host: In fact, you've said it is a false substitute for going to the cross or it is a line of thought that loves self as opposed to denying self. Steve: Yeah. And so, if you don't want to deny self and you don't even want to go in that direction, psychology is a great option for you. Host: And there is such a tremendous movement to accept that psychologized view in the church and very often we see this in the form of what we call “integrationism.” This is the perspective that we ought to integrate this worldly philosophy with the Word of God. What is the problem with that? Steve: Well, the problem is that the two are completely conflicting in what they're teaching. You're either going to the cross with your life, with your teachings, with what you are sharing with others, or you're going away from the cross and finding some way to comfort people in their sin. That's really the difference. You can't combine those two opposing philosophies. It's impossible. Host: They really are oil and water. I know that you go into this at great length in the rest of your book, “Intoxicated with Babylon,” but what is it about God's people today that opens us up to the acceptance of these kinds of ideas? Steve: Well, when you are in large part lending your mind to the voice of the world through television, through the internet, through school and worldly friends or coworkers, when your life is being much more influenced by the spirit of the world than it is by the spirit of Jesus Christ, you are just simply going to be much more vulnerable to their solutions, their ideas and their answers. You are just going to be very open to those kinds of teachings. Host: You've been helping men and women in sexual sin for over 20 years now. And despite the fact that some look at Christianity and look at the Word of God as being too simple to handle what they call the deep emotional problems of man, it's your experience that there is a true power in Christ to overcome those problems. Steve: Yes. And I had enormous emotional problems myself. But I have found this to be true not only in my own life, but in the lives of many that I've dealt with over the years, that when Jesus Christ has his rightful place in a person's life; when a person has really gotten a good sight of the Lord; when a person is really connected with the Lord through a strong devotional life; when a person has gone to the cross, and so on, those problems that may have seemed like a mountain before quickly become nothing more than a mole hill. It's just true that when God is big, our problems become small. But one of the greatest challenges that we have dealing with people who are struggling is that all the attractions and pleasures of the world have been huge and God has been tiny in their perspective. So, of course their problems are going to be huge as well. And our job at Pure Life Ministries is to turn that equation around and make God very big in their minds and hearts. And when we are able to help a person accomplish gain that perspective, then their problems are going to be very manageable. Host: Amen. Well, Steve, I hope that will be an encouragement to those who may be listening. To those who may have bounced back and forth from all kinds of worldly wisdom looking for an answer to know that there is an answer for them. There is hope for them and it is found at the cross in Christ. Steve: Absolutely. Host: Amen.

Timeless Truths: We Are Called to Forgive Without Conditions

October 3, 2024

When Jesus was on the cross being scorned and mocked by those who were crucifying Him, He said, "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." In this "Timeless Truths" segment, Judy Lucas talks about how, as followers of Christ, we also are called to unconditional forgiveness. Host: Judy, we want to look at an issue that is pretty common with some of the women we deal with whose husbands have been in sexual sin. It deals with the issue of forgiveness without repentance. And here's really what we want to talk about. For the person who's been sinned against, how is God calling them to deal with that issue, particularly when the person who sinned against them is not completely repentant? Judy: There really isn't a very straightforward, simple answer to that, because as you read the Bible, you do read examples where someone repents and then you forgive them. The classic verse on that is Luke 17:3, “Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.” (Luke 17:3, NASB) Host: Now, I can read that as saying that if you sin against me, but you don't ask me to forgive you, then I don't have to forgive you. And how often could we want to grab hold of that interpretation? Judy: Well, there are a lot of times that we want to grab hold of that interpretation. I can remember feeling that way, but this is a core issue. We can’t go off our feelings about this. We have examples in the Bible where Jesus Himself was hanging from across, looking down at those who nailed Him there and were mocking Him and He said, “Father, forgive them. They don't know what they're doing.” Another example is Hebrews 12:15, which talks about how we should not let a root of bitterness grow up that can cause us trouble. Matthew 5:44 says, “I say unto you, love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.” (Matthew 5:44, KJV) So, the Bible is clearly calling us to forgive even if the other person isn't truly repentant or broken yet, because when we're choosing to walk in unforgiveness, we're choosing to walk in sin ourselves. And so, what we're doing is cutting off our relationship and our communion with God. Host: It seems to me that the person who wants to read that passage in Luke 17 and say, “Well, they haven't come to me. They haven't asked me for forgiveness, so I'm not going to forgive them. I'm going to stay mad at them.” Really the difference between that person and the person who's willing to go to their brother or sister and try to help them to understand that they've been offended by them is that one person is focused on themselves while the other is more interested in helping the other person out. Judy: Very true, because the first person you mentioned is reacting to their feelings while the other is more concerned about the other person’s heart. They are asking themselves things like, “What is this person’s relationship with God really like?” And the concern should be that if the sin continues, where is that going to lead this person? There's a passage in Matthew 18:15-16 that gives directives for us to go in love with the attitude of Christ and talk to our brother about why we are hurting or why we were offended. So, there's room for that. But it needs to be restorative. If he doesn't repent, which is often the case, then you have a choice to take that next step and go to a pastor or another godly man and bring him into the situation. But that's you praying through and using wisdom on what to do next. Host: Yeah, but you must not hold bitterness or a grudge or stop showing that person love. As much as it depends on you, you should have peace with your brother or sister — even if they’ve offended you. Judy: Absolutely. And that really is the crucified life, where you are willing to deny yourself, pick up your cross and follow after Him. Host: Now we understand from a human perspective that some of the sin from one spouse toward another can be horrendous and we understand the natural response to that. So I guess to the person out there who's struggling with this, they should know we're called to a divine response, not a natural response. And I guess the best suggestion for a person struggling to forgive is to look to the Lord, put your eyes on Jesus and remember what He did for you as you alluded to earlier in our discussion. We need to remember that while we were yet in sin, He died for us. He forgave us. That's our example. That can go a long way in helping us get through those tough times when we really have been offended. To sum it up, our response needs to go beyond what comes naturally to us.